Is the Micro Ecclesia God’s New Mega Move? (Ep 345)
Is the future of the Church small and powerful? In this episode, we unpack the rise of the Micro Ecclesia and why it may be Heaven’s disruptive blueprint for cultural transformation. Could the Holy Spirit be breathing on a grassroots model of spiritual governance—relational, agile, and infused with Kingdom power?
Jesus co-opted a secular term, “ecclesia,” and filled it with Heaven’s DNA and authority. Now, that ancient design may be reemerging as a city-on-a-hill movement built to shape culture.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to the Jesus Smart Podcast. I’m Brian Del Turco, and today I want to explore a big question: Is the "Micro Ecclesia" the real mega as far as Jesus is concerned?
Could something original, radical, and deeply powerful be recaptured by Jesus today—something that truly moves the needle in culture, justice, and society? Something that embodies what Jesus meant when He spoke of salt, light, and a city on a hill?
This idea might stretch you. For some, it will ignite fresh excitement. For others, it may raise big question marks. And that’s okay. This is a discovery journey, and I invite you to walk it with me.
Jesus Redefines "Ecclesia"
In Matthew 16, Jesus takes His disciples into Caesarea Philippi, a region steeped in paganism and idol worship. Standing before a massive rock facade, He asks them: “Who do you say that I am?”
Peter answers: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus responds: “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not overpower it.”
But here’s the key: the word Jesus used wasn’t “church” as we think of it—steeples, services, and Sunday mornings. The word was Ecclesia, a term from the Greco-Roman world that described an assembly of citizens empowered to make decisions and extend the culture of the empire.
Jesus took this secular institution, infused it with kingdom DNA, and declared that His Ecclesia would overcome the very portals of hell.
What Is "Micro Ecclesia"?
The Ecclesia isn’t about buildings or religious services—it’s about people with kingdom authority. Jesus validated this when He said in Matthew 18:20: “Where two or three gather in my name, I am there in their midst.”
That’s the kingdom quorum: just two or three authentically gathered in His name carries His headship and authority. This is what we mean by a Micro Ecclesia ... a small Kingdom gathering with massive spiritual potential.
It’s salt and light. It’s leaven in the culture. It’s not confined to four walls or one weekly service.
Salt, Light, and Culture
Early believers wouldn’t have thought of “church” as a building or liturgy. They would have understood Ecclesia as an assembly carrying the presence and authority of King Jesus—just as Roman citizens carried the authority of their emperor wherever they met (a concept called coventus in the Latin).
Imagine how this translates today. Small, Spirit-led gatherings in homes, workplaces, schools, or even coffee shops becoming outposts of kingdom influence.
Education, business, government, arts, media, family. These are all domains where Micro Ecclesia can permeate culture with the life of Christ.
Recovering Jesus' Original Design
Throughout history, Jesus has restored fresh dimensions of His design for His people. Could Micro Ecclesia be one of those rediscoveries today? Yes, fringe expressions may pop up, but that shouldn’t cause us to dismiss the heart of what Jesus is building.
This is not about churchianity or tradition. It’s about aligning with Jesus’ architecture for His people. Like Abraham, we’re seeking the city whose architect and builder is God (Hebrews 11).
Apostles and Kingdom Builders
Jesus also co-opted the term apostle—not a religious word in His day. An apostolos (Greek) was an admiral leading a fleet, carrying materials and people to build a new colony that looked like Rome.
Likewise, apostolic people in the kingdom are builders, pioneers, and makers. They are those who extend heaven’s culture into new territories. Philippi and Thessalonica were Roman colonies.
The church in those cities were a kingdom colony of heaven.
What About Today?
So what does this mean for us?
- If you’re in education, find two or three who will pray and ideate together for kingdom influence in that space.
- If you’re in business, government, media, or the arts, begin to gather in His name with other Christ-followers who share that sphere.
- Think of your influence as a kingdom career. A parallel calling that extends far beyond your profession.
Like Paul’s handkerchiefs in Acts 19, even ordinary things we touch can become vehicles of transformation when saturated with the presence of God. What could you touch that drives away darkness and brings healing into your sphere?
Closing Thought
The Micro Ecclesia may just be the real mega. Not because of size, but because of alignment with Jesus’ original vision. Accurate alignment is conducive to his authority.
I invite you to explore this with me. Share this episode with friends. Whether they love the idea, feel curious, or even think it’s heresy! Let’s stir the conversation.
Jesus is brilliant, and whatever He builds is truly awesome. Walk with Him, and you’ll catch His brilliance in your own unique way.
Transcript
Hi Brian, Sylvia here.
Speaker A:I have enjoyed listening to Jesus Smart for over a year and a half now and have been greatly blessed by encouraging words, thought provoking conversations and sound doctrine.
Speaker A:Hey there.
Speaker A:Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast today.
Speaker A:This is Jesus Smart, the Podcast.
Speaker A:Brian Del Turco here's the big question.
Speaker A:Is the micro ekklesia the real mega?
Speaker A:Is micro the real mega as far as Jesus is concerned, is something being recaptured by Jesus today, something original and radical, something, my friend, which moves the needle in a meaningful way in culture over justice issues in society, Salt and light, the city on a hill that Jesus spoke of.
Speaker A:I'm going to predict that this will bug some people.
Speaker A:Some people are going to something's going to jump in them and they're going to love it and other people are just going to have a big question mark about it.
Speaker A:They're not sure.
Speaker A:Maybe I'd like to learn a little bit more about this.
Speaker A:Maybe not.
Speaker A:Those are the 3 responses to this podcast today.
Speaker A:And this is a quick intro.
Speaker A:I'm on the discovery curve with this.
Speaker A:I always try to follow the wind, if you know what I mean on the podcast.
Speaker A:And so I may develop this into a series at some point, an exploration series, the Micro Ecclesia.
Speaker A:Would you consider going to podchaser.com and search for Jesus Smart and give this podcast a rating and a review that will help the podcast as well?
Speaker A:Now, can it be that Jesus in his brilliance, co opted an existing secular institution with imperial authority and infused it with kingdom DNA when he said, I will build my church?
Speaker A:Can I just run that by you real quick?
Speaker A:Again, can it be that Jesus co opted an existing secular institution with imperial authority and infused it with kingdom DNA when he said, I will build my church?
Speaker A:Now, In Matthew chapter 16 we read that Jesus came with his disciples into the district of Caesarea Philippi and he was asking his disciples in that setting, who do people say that the Son of Man is?
Speaker A:Jesus always used settings and context and rolled out new revelation, new information.
Speaker A:This was six months before Jesus would die on the cross.
Speaker A:So things were coming to a conclusion during his three and a half year earthly ministry.
Speaker A:Now, Caesarea Philippi was in the northernmost part of Galilee.
Speaker A:This was not down south in Jerusalem in the big Bible Belt.
Speaker A:Ok?
Speaker A:This was not in the setting of the incumbent religious establishment of the day.
Speaker A:This was in the northernmost part of Galilee.
Speaker A:It was an area long associated with paganism, idol worship, and the whole area was centered on a massive stone facade, which Jesus probably used as a play on words when he said, I will build my church on this rock.
Speaker A:The revelation of who he was.
Speaker A:He was facing down surrounding idols and the demons behind those idols.
Speaker A:That is the setting in which he asked his disciples, who do they say that I am out there?
Speaker A:Who do you say that I am?
Speaker A:And his disciples responded, well, some are saying that you are John the Baptist, others that you are Elijah, still others that you are Jeremiah or one of the prophets.
Speaker A:And Jesus said to them, but who do you say that I am?
Speaker A:And that is really the most important question that can be posed to each of us.
Speaker A:Who do we say that Jesus is?
Speaker A:And Peter answered, you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Speaker A:And Jesus said to him, blessed are you Simon, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Speaker A:And I also say to you that you are Peter.
Speaker A:And upon this rock, I believe it's the rock of the revelation, the understanding of who Christ is.
Speaker A:I will build my church, my ecclesia.
Speaker A:And the gates of Hades, or hell will not overpower it.
Speaker A:The portals of hell.
Speaker A:We have portals of hell today on the earth.
Speaker A:Sex trafficking is a portal of hell.
Speaker A:But the gates of hell will not overpower the ecclesia that Jesus is building.
Speaker A:He says, I give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven.
Speaker A:And whatever you loose on earth shall.
Speaker A:Shall have been loosed in heaven.
Speaker A:And I think that the new American standard helps us here with the translation because I'm not a Greek expert, okay?
Speaker A:But I just know a little bit to be dangerous.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:But here in this verse, verse 19 is very complex Greek structure.
Speaker A:And really what it means is that what is bound in heaven currently must be bound upon the earth through the Ecclesia.
Speaker A:And what is loosed or permitted in heaven must be loosed on the earth through the ecclesia.
Speaker A:Now in this time there were three main institutions in Israel that were spiritual in nature.
Speaker A:The first was the Temple from the Old Covenant.
Speaker A:And the Temple existed in Jesus time.
Speaker A:It was Herod's Temple, a restored temple and embellished by Herod, a rather corrupt king.
Speaker A:But at any rate, he embellished it.
Speaker A:Number two, the synagogue.
Speaker A:My understanding is that the synagogue emerged during the intertestamental period, about a 400 year period between Malachi and Matthew.
Speaker A:During the Diaspora when the Jews were scattered throughout other countries and other parts of the Roman world.
Speaker A:Synagogues would sprout up where Jews met.
Speaker A:And then number three was what Jesus was now introducing, the Ecclesia.
Speaker A:And in selecting this concept, Jesus was choosing something that was really better suited to succeed in culture and in society.
Speaker A:As leaven and as salt and as light.
Speaker A:Now what is it?
Speaker A:What is the ecclesia and what do we mean by a microeclasia?
Speaker A:Well, the ekklesia was a Greco Roman, I.e.
Speaker A:a Greek Roman phenomenon.
Speaker A:It was a called out assembly of city states that go back to ancient Greece where the citizens would meet in a forum or in the city gates.
Speaker A:They would make decisions, they would have deliberations.
Speaker A:They originally met once every month, but later three or four times per month.
Speaker A:It was this gathering of citizens who were called out from their homes into some public space and they would convene and there was a council and they would deliberate and they would make decisions.
Speaker A:The ecclesia under Roman rule was an assembly of people that were actually deputized by the emperor to introduce the culture and laws of the empire.
Speaker A:To implement the culture and laws of the empire.
Speaker A:This is amazing.
Speaker A:Jesus is taking this historical secular, it's not Jewish, it's not Old Testament.
Speaker A:He was taking this word, this concept, this phenomenon going back to the Greeks and then through the Roman Empire as well.
Speaker A:And he was infusing it with new higher kingdom meaning that is what he's building.
Speaker A:He's saying Jesus in effect is saying that the secular ecclesia is governed by evil forces.
Speaker A:But I am building.
Speaker A:Notice my ekklesia.
Speaker A:This is something that only Jesus can build.
Speaker A:Men can build churchianity, but only Jesus can build the ekklesia.
Speaker A:I could drop the mic here but I don't want to damage my mic.
Speaker A:Now imagine the difference in how the disciples would have heard this and what we understand today.
Speaker A:When we think of church we tend to think of a building, we tend to think of a religious service, we tend to think of something which we might put under the category of churchianity.
Speaker A:I'm suggesting that we need a new wineskin understanding of what Jesus is talking about.
Speaker A:For me, I'm interested in what Jesus is building.
Speaker A:I want to get more accurate about that.
Speaker A:I want to align more closely to that.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I'm interested in that architecture.
Speaker A:Abraham, I believe in Hebrews 11 that Abraham went out not knowing where he was going.
Speaker A:He was looking for the city whose architect and builder is God.
Speaker A:He's looking for the activity of God.
Speaker A:He's looking for the future where God is at, what he's building.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So Jesus, I'm going to repeat this again.
Speaker A:He co opted an existing secular institution with imperial authority.
Speaker A:First the Greeks, then the Romans, Greco Roman and he infused it with higher kingdom DNA when he said he would build his ecclesia.
Speaker A:It's really better translated as assembly or gathering than the word church.
Speaker A:Now I want to introduce a concept to you called kingdom Quorum.
Speaker A:A quorum is a minimum number of members necessary, right, in an assembly or in a society, or any gathering which must be present at any of its meetings to make the proceedings legal and valid.
Speaker A:And I want to talk to you about the concept of kingdom Quorum.
Speaker A:What is that minimum number of members necessary for a kingdom quorum in a Ecclesia?
Speaker A:Well, Jesus clearly tells us.
Speaker A:He says in Matthew 18, verse 19, if two of you agree on earth about anything, they may ask, it shall be done for them by my Father who is in heaven.
Speaker A:Catch it now, verse 20.
Speaker A:For where two or three have gathered together in my name, I am there in their midst.
Speaker A:He validates two or three as a kingdom quorum.
Speaker A:And this is an incredible promise.
Speaker A:He guarantees he will be present whenever two or three gather in his name.
Speaker A:Now, it doesn't say gathering in their name or even in the name of a man made institution, but when they authentically gather in his name, I am there in the midst.
Speaker A:Think of it.
Speaker A:The headship of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:He is head over all things.
Speaker A:He comes into a micro ecclesia with his presence.
Speaker A:Now, how does the church today compare?
Speaker A:The ekklesia is always about people, never about buildings.
Speaker A:How does the church today compare?
Speaker A:We'll ask the question again.
Speaker A:The ekklesia is always about authoritative people, never a service or churchianity.
Speaker A:What we are suggesting is that we need an extension from the local weekly gathering into the culture and society.
Speaker A:We need an extension of microeclesia from the local weekly gathering of the local church into culture and society.
Speaker A:As leaven salt light.
Speaker A:Ed Silvoso says this quote.
Speaker A:Could it be that we have confined to our four walls once a week what is meant to operate 247 all over the city in the marketplace.
Speaker A:And we're using marketplace here.
Speaker A:I can add as an umbrella term.
Speaker A:Not just business, but the marketplace of ideas.
Speaker A:The marketplace of education, arts and entertainment media.
Speaker A:Let me introduce another word to you, another concept again.
Speaker A:I'm on the discovery curve.
Speaker A:So if any of this sounds new to you, I'm just several steps ahead.
Speaker A:Come with me on it.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:Maybe we'll do a series on it.
Speaker A:Coventus.
Speaker A:Coventus is a Latin word which the Romans used.
Speaker A:Wherever Roman citizens met, the power and authority of the Emperor was with them.
Speaker A:That's what they believed.
Speaker A:And I think I Believe that Jesus had this concept in mind as well as the Greco Roman concept of ekklesia coventus.
Speaker A:Wherever Roman citizens met, the power and authority of the emperor was with them.
Speaker A:So where two or three Roman citizens were gathered anywhere together in the world, it constituted the coventus.
Speaker A:Wherever they assembled, they believed and practiced Roman citizens.
Speaker A:And it brought the very power and presence of Rome into their midst.
Speaker A:Isn't that amazing?
Speaker A:This is the way the disciples and the early believers would have understood the concept of assembly or gathering ecclesia that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16, again in Matthew 18.
Speaker A:And then it explodes in the book of Acts when the Holy Spirit is poured out upon the people.
Speaker A:And it's developed intellectually and doctrinally and it's developed in thought by Paul through his writings and others throughout the New Testament.
Speaker A:This is what they would have heard.
Speaker A:They would have never thought of a building.
Speaker A:They would have never have thought of what we come to understand.
Speaker A:As boy, we really had church today, some sort of an expression of churchianity.
Speaker A:They would have never seen it as a rote traditional religious service, a liturgy.
Speaker A:As we've come to understand it.
Speaker A:They would have understood it as Jesus is telling us that if just two or three of us gather, he is present with us as the emperor over all things.
Speaker A:Coventus, where two or three Roman citizens gather anywhere together in the world, the power and the authority of the emperor was with them.
Speaker A:This is amazing stuff.
Speaker A:It's really revolutionary and radical.
Speaker A:And I'm telling you, across America and across the world there is a trend line in the kingdom of God right now that the Holy Spirit seems to be breathing on and pushing on.
Speaker A:And that is a concept of micro ecclesia as outpost, as extensions of, as another layer of affiliation and association.
Speaker A:Extensions of the local church in the big marketplace of everything.
Speaker A:The scripture says that Jesus fills all things via all people everywhere.
Speaker A:That theme is in the New Testament.
Speaker A:It's not just a Sunday morning or Saturday evening church service.
Speaker A:It's something that the Holy Spirit seems to be breathing on and developing now.
Speaker A:Can we just pull back one second?
Speaker A:Anytime, anytime the Lord restores something in the church or some new space is broken into as the Lord is developing his church.
Speaker A:No matter what the issue is, what the topic is, what's being developed, there's always some fringe silliness surrounding it.
Speaker A:Because we live in a broken world.
Speaker A:We see in part, there's always a little bit of goofiness surrounding it.
Speaker A:We cannot afford to throw out everything because of that.
Speaker A:And so we are going for the core of micro ecclesia, I should say I am going for it.
Speaker A:I'm inviting you to explore it with me and see how and when that may fit into your context, into your journey, into your development as a kingdom apprentice.
Speaker A:So these concepts, ekklesia coventus.
Speaker A:And now one more revolutionary introductory concept that Jesus introduced.
Speaker A:He co opted the term apostle.
Speaker A:Apostle was not a religious term.
Speaker A:It was understood in that day as an admiral who was in charge of a fleet of ships.
Speaker A:He would be in the lead ship.
Speaker A:I think Apostolos might be the pronunciation of the Greek word, an admiral in charge of a fleet of ships, bringing building materials and bringing people to build a new territory, a city that looked like Rome.
Speaker A:Isn't that amazing?
Speaker A:And so you have a city like Philippi, which was a Roman colony, the book of Philippians in the New Testament, that was a Roman colony, that apostolic dynamic from Rome, an admiral, an Apostolos coming there with building materials, with plans, with designs, with people to build a new colony, to build a new territory that resembled, that looked like Rome.
Speaker A:Thessalonica was another New Testament city that was a Roman colony.
Speaker A:I believe first and second Thessalonians in the New Testament were written to that community of believers.
Speaker A:This is amazing.
Speaker A:He co opted these secular concepts of ecclesia coventus apostle.
Speaker A:And he said, this is what I'm doing it, but I'm infusing it with true authority, true kingdom DNA.
Speaker A:Apostolic people are at the point of the arrow.
Speaker A:They are people that go into virgin territory and bring the kingdom of God.
Speaker A:They're design oriented, they're makers, they're builders.
Speaker A:There's just a lot there.
Speaker A:And I'm just seeking to learn.
Speaker A:I'm just seeking to learn.
Speaker A:I follow others.
Speaker A:I'm praying, I'm in the word, you know, I'm, I'm seeking to learn.
Speaker A:I want to.
Speaker A:Lord, Lord, help, help me to be avant's guard.
Speaker A:Let me be avant garde in what you're doing.
Speaker A:I don't want to be, I want to be an early adopter, I want to be an early implementer.
Speaker A:I don't want to be way back in the pack or just way back where.
Speaker A:I never am really on the edge of what you're doing.
Speaker A:Let me leave you with one other thought which I think is challenging.
Speaker A:The Apostle Paul, as you know, was a tent maker.
Speaker A:He dealt in tents and probably leather products and other things associated with, with that trade.
Speaker A:And it said there in the book of Acts that he would be working in the heat and he would be sweating and that handkerchiefs or cloths that he would use, which would have his sweat on it would be taken from his person to other people at remote distances and it would drive out illnesses and even drive out demons from people.
Speaker A:These handkerchiefs or these cloths became vehicles of transformation.
Speaker A:And let's just try to think about what is happening here.
Speaker A:Obviously Paul had an abiding presence of God upon him and he was carrying the anointing of the Holy Spirit and it got into his.
Speaker A:Evidently his sweat and these cloths were taken to others.
Speaker A:But let's just even go further upstream.
Speaker A:What's going on here?
Speaker A:Anything that we touch has the power to be transformed in culture and in society.
Speaker A:Maybe you're interested in art or media or technology or business or public policy or education or family life or even church life.
Speaker A:Those society domains, domains of society and culture.
Speaker A:How can we bring the influence of the king, the king of all, Emperor Jesus, into those spaces?
Speaker A:Can you find two or three people if you're in education, can you find two or three people in education and just really begin to meet?
Speaker A:Jesus will automatically come and meet with you if you gather in his name.
Speaker A:Begin to pray over the education space.
Speaker A:Begin to ideate.
Speaker A:Your main ministry will be worship and prayer over that education space.
Speaker A:But also ideation will come there very well, probably will be practical things, innovative ideas and solutions which will generate, which you can bring into the education space.
Speaker A:You know, showing forth the excellencies of God.
Speaker A:Whatever you do, do your work heartily as for the Lord rather than for men.
Speaker A:And it applies to business, it applies to public policy.
Speaker A:Boy, do we need it in like civic government space, don't we?
Speaker A:No matter what nation you're in, what town many times, start where you're at.
Speaker A:Start local, get real close.
Speaker A:How can I influence civic government locally?
Speaker A:Can I pray for the leaders?
Speaker A:Can I actually develop a relationship with the leaders and the council of my local town or city?
Speaker A:And can I ask them, what is your greatest challenge?
Speaker A:What are your greatest opportunities?
Speaker A:How can I help?
Speaker A:Can I pray?
Speaker A:Can I bless what you're doing?
Speaker A:Is there anything I can do practically?
Speaker A:But there's just infinite ways to apply this, this idea of your work or your influence.
Speaker A:Remember, you have a kingdom career.
Speaker A:It's not just your profession or job.
Speaker A:Many people are seeing that as supporting their real gig.
Speaker A:And that is we are to all develop a parallel kingdom career.
Speaker A:In addition to that.
Speaker A:That's an expression of seeking first God's kingdom and his righteousness.
Speaker A:And everything else will be added.
Speaker A:What are those handkerchiefs that could go out from you that you touch into the spaces, into the places.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:With the resurrection life of Christ, with the supremacy of the lordship of Christ, what can you touch that will drive away dark powers from those places?
Speaker A:What can you do that will bring healing and restoration to those spaces?
Speaker A:It's all pointing back.
Speaker A:It's all as a witness.
Speaker A:It's a witness to the king, it's a witness to the coming kingdom.
Speaker A:It's a witness to the new heavens and the new earth which are coming.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I can feel it.
Speaker A:I'm just kind of.
Speaker A:I like it when I start podcasting myself a little bit.
Speaker A:Happy.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Micro ecclesia Whether we do a series or not, you will hear more about this.
Speaker A:More will leak out on this podcast.
Speaker A:I'm pretty confident about that.
Speaker A:And perhaps we'll have some guests on here to talk about this with more seasoned depth of understanding.
Speaker A:Well, I appreciate you.
Speaker A:Go to the show notes page@jesussmart.com micro is the microecalciat the real mega as far as Jesus is concerned?
Speaker A:That's the question.
Speaker A:Now would you share this with one or two of your friends?
Speaker A:Maybe you're very intrigued about this.
Speaker A:Maybe you're curious.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker A:Share it with them.
Speaker A:Ask them that question.
Speaker A:And as I mentioned last week, if you think this is absolute sky blue heresy, share it with them.
Speaker A:We invite the hate and the love.
Speaker A:Alright?
Speaker A:This guy's a heretic.
Speaker A:What he's talking about is ridiculous.
Speaker A:Confirm what I'm feeling.
Speaker A:They may come back and say, well I don't know man, I'm kind of interested in that.
Speaker A:Or maybe they'll say it is heresy.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Just, just share it.
Speaker A:That's the thing.
Speaker A:Share it and spread it around.
Speaker A:To learn more about the podcast, of course, Jesuss smart.com I appreciate you.
Speaker A:Jesus is brilliant.
Speaker A:I'm telling you, whatever he builds, it's got to be awesome.
Speaker A:Walk with him and you'll catch his brilliance in a United States unique way.
Speaker A:He knows how this life works best.
Speaker A:More good stuff to come.
Speaker A:We'll talk soon.
