“Don’t Mention the Holy Spirit”—What These Iranian Women Were Told In American Churches (Ep 343)
Iranian Christian women, imprisoned for their faith, were urged by some American churches and publishers: “Please don’t speak about the Holy Spirit.” But for them, the Holy Spirit wasn’t a side note. He was central. He sustained them through persecution and gave them supernatural strength, guidance, and peace.
Why is much of the American Church hesitant, even resistant, to embrace the full-spectrum, present-day ministry of the Holy Spirit we see in the New Testament? Has a theological cognitive bias dulled our spiritual edge?
In this episode, we press into the tension between charismatic Christianity and the often rational, stripped-down theology of the West. And we ask: What can the persecuted church teach us about walking in the power of the Holy Spirit?
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See the full episode transcript below.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Not everyone in American churches knows and experiences true Christianity. That reality was driven home in a recent panel discussion featuring three Iranian women who endured prison for their faith in Christ. Their testimony is both sobering and inspiring.
They remind us that we must value our freedom as American Christians—and use it. Our freedom is not just for personal enjoyment but to be a voice for the persecuted church worldwide.
These women shared that the only thing that sustained them in prison was their faith and the present ministry of the Holy Spirit.
The panel, Stories from Religious Freedom and the Growth of the Underground Church, was hosted on the Family Research Council website (FRC.org). I’ll link to it on the show notes page at JesusSmart.com.
One of the women was arrested and detained in a men’s detention center in 2009. That same year, the other two were imprisoned for promoting Christianity. They spent 259 days in Tehran’s notorious Evin Prison. Although sentenced to death, they were eventually cleared and released under international pressure.
Their stories, however, are not unique. Open Doors USA ranks Iran as the ninth worst country in the world for Christian persecution. (I’ll link to their resource on the show notes page as well.)
A Message to the American Church
The Iranian women explained that when they moved to the United States, they assumed it was a Christian nation. But soon they realized that not everyone believes in Jesus—or even understands true Christianity.
They compared it to Iran, where most people are born Muslim but may never read the Quran or deeply know their faith. In the U.S., many are born into Christian culture without a personal relationship with Christ.
Their message to the American church is clear: appreciate the freedom you have. The ability to worship freely, sing loudly, and gather openly is a precious gift.
But freedom should not be hoarded. It must be used to advocate for those who have none.
As one woman said, persecution could one day come to free nations, and then we may find ourselves needing the prayers and support of others.
How Can the Holy Spirit Be Silenced?
One striking part of their story is how often they were asked—by churches and even a Christian publisher—to avoid talking about the Holy Spirit. They refused.
“The only thing that really helped us in prison to stand in our faith was the Holy Spirit,” one said. “How can we not talk about Him?”
Their testimony reminds us that the Holy Spirit is not optional. He is central to survival and victory in persecution, and in everyday life.
A Theological Bias Against the Full Ministry of the Holy Spirit Today?
I believe we are living in the era of the Holy Spirit since Christ. And yet, much of the American church resists embracing His full ministry.
There is what I call a theological cognitive bias against the Holy Spirit’s work. Some seem to teach that He has been largely inactive for the last 1,500 years, reduced only to helping us interpret Scripture.
But that view robs us of the fullness of Christ. As Paul wrote, “The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” (2 Corinthians 3:17).
The New Covenant is far more glorious than the Old. Why would we believe that we have been downgraded from the first-century church—or even from Old Testament saints who saw God’s power firsthand?
The Book of Acts is not just history; it is precedent and pattern for the church age. Jesus Himself said it was to our advantage that He return to the Father so that the Spirit could be sent.
We cannot be fully Christ-centered without being fully Spirit-filled.
Remembering the Persecuted
The Iranian women urged the international community to stand up for those who suffer for their faith. Their words echo Scripture:
- “Remember the prisoners as though in prison with them” (Hebrews 13.3).
- “When you did it to the least of these, you did it unto Me” (Matthew 25.40).
As Christ-followers, we’re called to pray, to advocate, and to use our freedom for those who don’t have it.
Living in the Light of Christ
Jesus is brilliant and full of light. When Saul of Tarsus encountered Him on the road to Damascus, the brilliance of His presence blinded him. I find myself praying, “Lord, blind me to my natural way of seeing. Flood me with Your light and intelligence.”
The future is bright—new heavens and a new earth are coming. But even now, we can live in the light of that horizon, carrying the power and authority of Christ and His Spirit into our world.
Transcript
We shared that the only thing that really helped both of us when we were in prison to stand on our faith was Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:So how we are going to not talk about it?
Speaker B:Not everyone in American churches know and experience true Christianity.
Speaker B:This is what three Iranian women said.
Speaker B:They say that we need to value our freedom and use our freedom as American Christians to be the voice for the persecuted church internationally.
Speaker B:And they say that the only thing that really helped them in prison was to stand in faith by the power, by the present ministry of the Holy Spirit to them.
Speaker B:The name of the panel discussion was Stories from Religious Freedom and the Growth of the Underground Church.
Speaker B:It's on the Family Research Council website FRC.org and I will have a link to this discussion on the show notes page@jesussmart.com Three Iranian women shared firsthand about the persecution they endured for living out their faith in their home country.
Speaker B: n a men's detention center in: Speaker B: During that same year: Speaker B:They were detained for 259 days in Evan prison in Tehran.
Speaker B:And although they were sentenced to death, the women were cleared of all charges and released from custody.
Speaker B:After international pressure and international intervention, these three women, their stories are not unique.
Speaker B:Open Doors USA ranks Iran as the 9th worst country for Christian persecution.
Speaker B:I'll have a link to that on the Show Notes page as well.
Speaker B:My name is Brian Del Turco and we're asking this question today.
Speaker B:Are we living in the era of the Holy Spirit since Christ?
Speaker B:Even though a whole lot of the American church doesn't seem to embrace it.
Speaker B:Let's hear from these Iranian believers now and I'll come back with a few thoughts.
Speaker C: after publishing our book in: Speaker C:And that was the only the question at the end we would receive was that what is your message for churches in America?
Speaker C:And you know, when we moved to the U.S. we thought we are moving to a Christian country.
Speaker C:Everyone is Christian and they believe in Jesus.
Speaker C:But very soon we realized that not everyone believes in Jesus Christ and not everyone knows the true Christianity.
Speaker C:It's like in Iran.
Speaker C:You know, most people are just born as a Muslim.
Speaker C:They don't know Islam and they don't read the Quran.
Speaker C:I think it's the same in the us People are born as Christians, but not everyone has personal experience and personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Speaker C:And we always our message to Churches in America is that please appreciate the freedom you have in this country, the freedom of going to a church and freely worshiping God.
Speaker C:We understand what this means.
Speaker C:As two people, as all of us, I can say as people who came from a country that you cannot even sing for God with a loud voice, you have to be cautious about everything.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:The freedom that you have in this country is a precious gift.
Speaker C:But we also believe that you have to use this freedom.
Speaker C:You can't just leave your freedom and enjoy this freedom.
Speaker C:We have to be a voice for those people who do not have this freedom.
Speaker C:One day persecution may come to the free countries and we might need help from that part of the world.
Speaker C:So please stand up for your brothers and sisters and be their voice.
Speaker A:I would like to share one part personal experience.
Speaker A:As Mariam shared, we had the different, you know, picture coming to the United States, but we spoke after publishing the book.
Speaker A:We spoke in many churches, we traveled to other countries and we realized that, you know, especially in the United States, we spoke in many states, in many churches, and we realized that, you know, it's not, you know, like that all Christians are really true believers.
Speaker A:They invited us for speaking a few times in some churches.
Speaker A:We experienced that.
Speaker A:They came to us before speaking.
Speaker A:They told us, would you please not talk about Holy Spirit?
Speaker A:What not talking about Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:So if you are going to separate that, what is we are going to talk about.
Speaker A:We shared that the only thing that really helped both of us when we were in prison to start on our faith was Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:So how we are going to not talk about it?
Speaker A:And it wasn't, you know, just the churches.
Speaker A:And it was, you know, we had this discussion with the publisher because the publisher, before publishing the book, they.
Speaker A:We had this discussion.
Speaker A:They asked us, is it okay to not print those parts about Holy Spirit?
Speaker A:And again, we were so shocked.
Speaker A:And at the beginning we didn't know why, why they are going to omit that part.
Speaker A:And they told us, because many people in America do not believe in Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:And we said, okay, we don't care if they don't believe in Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:This is our story.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to change my story.
Speaker A:I'm not going to omit that part.
Speaker A:That how Holy Spirit, you know, did a lot of miracles in our lives.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was very strange for both of us to hear those things.
Speaker A:And we realized that in some churches is most about money, business, and it's not about Jesus, it's not about Holy Spirit, which was very disappointing.
Speaker C:Anything you'd like to share about that.
Speaker A:I believe you said it all.
Speaker A:It says in Corinthians, it says, do not forget our brothers and sisters in prison.
Speaker A:Continue to pray for them.
Speaker A:And as you said, the Holy Spirit is the one who helps in prison.
Speaker A:There's so many stories one can share from what God is doing in prison.
Speaker A:So, yeah, do please pray for the Spirit of God to move inside of the prisons.
Speaker B:I want to share a few thoughts that are in my heart about religious persecution, about identifying with those in prison for.
Speaker B:From Matthew 25 and also Hebrews 13, a few verses there, verses 2 and 3.
Speaker B:But before that, let me talk about this concept that I'm calling a theological cognitive bias against the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:That's a mouthful, but a theological cognitive bias against the full spectrum work and activity and expression and manifestation of the third member of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:You know, Jesus said it was actually to our advantage that he returned to the Father and send the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:You can read about this in, like John 14, 15, 16, you know, the night before he died, Thursday night of Passover week, many of the last words he was leaving with his disciples were about the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:He would teach you all things.
Speaker B:He will show you what is to come.
Speaker B:He will take of what is mine and disclose it to you.
Speaker B:He is another helper of the same kind as me.
Speaker B:He said to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:Don't do anything.
Speaker B:Don't move out and do anything in terms of the commission that I'm leaving you until you are endued with power by the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:Jesus warned religious leaders in his day not to speak against the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:I want you to really catch the sense of honor and deference that he gives to the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:Jesus said, you can speak a word against me as the second member of the Godhead, the Son of God, and be forgiven.
Speaker B:But if you speak a word against the Holy Spirit, you will not be forgiven.
Speaker B:And if you look at the context, if you look at the contextual arrangement of his teaching in those verses, he's talking about religious leaders who were attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to demonic powers.
Speaker B:That is the context in which he warned us against speaking against the Spirit.
Speaker B:If you read the Book of Acts.
Speaker B:The Book of Acts is really not just a historical book of what once happened.
Speaker B:It's a seminal book.
Speaker B:It's a DNA book.
Speaker B:It's a book of precedent and patterns for the entire, what I would call the era of the Holy Spirit, the church age.
Speaker B:If you Continue with, like Paul's 13 letters in the New Testament.
Speaker B:Make no mistake about it, it's Christocentric first, but then there's so much emphasis upon the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:And really how do we in our time become Christocentric and experience the fullness of Christ without the fullness of the Spirit?
Speaker B:Paul wrote, I think to the Corinthians, the Lord is the Spirit.
Speaker B:And where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Speaker B:Jesus comes to us now via the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:And yet, if you were to listen to a lot of the theological debate that goes on in North America, and I mean, a lot in a lot of churches and a lot of denominations and in a lot of institutions of higher education, it seems they would have us to believe that the Holy Spirit has been somewhat mute for the last 15 centuries.
Speaker B:He only now illuminates or gives us understanding on what the Holy Spirit inspired during the Old Covenant and during the first century when the New Testament writers wrote, contend for the faith once for all delivered.
Speaker B:But that faith in, you know, the faith that was once delivered in the first century is a faith that includes a full spectrum ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:These voices would have us to believe that we're inferior to Old Covenant saints.
Speaker B:What do I mean by that?
Speaker B:That God, God interacted with Old Testament saints.
Speaker B:He spoke to them.
Speaker B:He did exploits.
Speaker B:They did exploits under the power of God.
Speaker B:In effect, they would have us to believe that we're inferior to the first century church.
Speaker B:God no longer talks to us like he talked to them.
Speaker B:He only talks to us if we can find a chapter in a verse in the Bible.
Speaker B:In fact, I mean, it's almost like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Bible.
Speaker B:You know, the Holy Spirit no longer does exploits in and through us like he did in and through them.
Speaker B:All we can do now is read about it in a book and rely upon the Holy Spirit to give us illumination only on what he once said, only on what he once did.
Speaker B:That's all we can hope for, really, from the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:And yet Paul wrote in Corinthians that we under the new covenant are now under a superior covenant whose glory so far surpasses the glory of the Old Covenant that it's incomparable.
Speaker B:Our experience should be far above and beyond now on this side of the cross, this side of the empty tomb, this side of the ascension of Christ and the session or the seating of Christ as a king and the pouring out of his Holy Spirit upon the earth.
Speaker B:But they would have us to believe that the dynamics of this new covenant were severely downgraded when John died and when the Western church unanimous unanimously agreed on the Canon of the New Testament.
Speaker B:The 27 books of the New Testament canon finally resolved in the 500-00 A.D. so that's why I say it seems they would have us to believe that he is somewhat mute and his ministry to us has been downgraded for the last 15 centuries.
Speaker B:We'll talk more about this on the podcast.
Speaker B:I want to be fair.
Speaker B:I want to be reasonable about it.
Speaker B:I don't want to get, you know, crazy about it, but I just want to be fair to the scriptures exegetically.
Speaker B: and especially since the late: Speaker B:What's happening globally in South America, Africa, Asia, what's happening in Russia and in America.
Speaker B:It's just that there's a lot of North American, what I call a theological cognitive bias against a full spectrum experience of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:And I am saying that we cannot have a full spectrum experience as a Christ follower without a full spectrum experience of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:Well, my friend, on the show Notes page, I'm going to have a link to an article Persecuted Middle East Christians Petition International Community, Stand up for your brothers and sisters.
Speaker B:This is Decision magazine from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
Speaker B:They picked up and they covered this panel discussion at the Family research council on February 5th.
Speaker B:I'll have a link to that.
Speaker B:If you just want to go to the website now you can go there.
Speaker B:It's decisionmagazine.com I'll also have a link again to that full 90 minute or so panel discussion directly from the Family Research Council site I think I mentioned.
Speaker B:I'll also leave a link to the open doors reference to Iran.
Speaker B:And while you're on that site, you could look at other nations as well.
Speaker B:But here's what they said again.
Speaker B:They are asking these women, these Iranian believers in this panel discussion are asking the international community to step up to the plate.
Speaker B:Here's what they said again, as people who came from a country where you cannot even sing for God with a loud voice, this freedom that you have in the United States is a precious gift.
Speaker B:But we also believe that you have to use this freedom.
Speaker B:You just can't enjoy this freedom personally.
Speaker B:We have to be a voice for those people who do not have this freedom.
Speaker B: so what Jesus said in Matthew: Speaker B:For I was hungry, you gave me something to eat.
Speaker B:I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink.
Speaker B:I was a stranger.
Speaker B:You invited me in naked, and you clothed me sick, and you visited me.
Speaker B:I was in prison, and you came to me.
Speaker B:And they will say at that time, if you go on to read it, when, Lord, when did we do this?
Speaker B:Like, when were you in prison when you did it to the least of these, you've done it unto me.
Speaker B:And then, Hebrews, chapter 13, verses 2 through 4.
Speaker B:Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
Speaker B:Remember the prisoners, verse 3.
Speaker B:Remember the prisoners as though in prison with them and those who are ill treated, since you yourselves also are in the body of Christ.
Speaker B:Hey, my friend, Jesus is brilliant.
Speaker B:He's full of light.
Speaker B:I was thinking about Saul of Tarsus when he was blinded by the appearance of Christ on the road to Damascus.
Speaker B:His natural eyesight was taken away for a time.
Speaker B:The light of Christ was so overpowering.
Speaker B:And it's like, lord, in a real sense, do that for me.
Speaker B:Take away not my physical eyesight, but take away my natural way of seeing.
Speaker B:Blind me to it with the brilliance of your light, the brilliance of your intelligence.
Speaker B:He knows how this life works best, starting right now.
Speaker B:And the new heavens and the new earth are on the way.
Speaker B:So the future is incredibly bright.
Speaker B:We can live right now, begin to live now, in the light of that horizon, in the life of it, in the power and authority of it.
