'Stuff I Got from Dad with Keith Payne' (EP 357)

Speaker A: 00:00:00

I'm a Jesus faith I'm a Jesus.

Speaker B: 00:00:04

Faith When I think about his mercy.

Speaker A: 00:00:07

I've got to lift my hands hey there friends.

Speaker C: 00:00:10

Welcome to Jesus Smart X the podcast episode 357.

This is Brian Del Turco here, and today we are stepping into a conversation that hits home for every single one of us because all of us have a father story. This gospel music bed is from the Payne Family Group, a gospel group that Keith was a part of along with his brothers.

And you're hearing a little bit of their music Today.

I saw Keith Payne on Facebook talking about his new upcoming release, Stuff I Got from dad, how he relates his experiences with his earthly Father to things about our heavenly Father, things he learned. And he's on the podcast today talking about his new book by that title, Stuff I Got From Dad.

It's a great conversation, is a great person, it's inspirational, and I think you're going to enjoy it and benefit from it. Maybe you had an amazing dad, or maybe your father was present but imperfect.

Or perhaps your experience with your earthly father was painful or even absent. No matter what your story looks like, your Father in heaven is not a reflection of your earthly dad.

He is the perfection your earthly dad was only meant to point to, and God still can use it and show you some things which please lean in. God is in the business of redeeming fatherhood. He knows how to re father us. The conversion experience in Christ is about re fathering.

Jesus introduces us now to God as Father to heal us and to teach us who he really is. It can unlock some healing and breakthrough in your understanding of the Father heart of God.

If you're new to the podcast, subscribe so that you can stay connected with future episodes. If you want to receive a weekly shot of Kingdom clarity and encouragement, I hope that's what it is.

You can sign up for the free Smart Edit newsletter. Just go to jesussmart.com right at the top of the homepage and you'll see the form there. You can unsubscribe at any time. I think you'll enjoy it.

I think you'll benefit from it. And if you'd like to support this podcast and the mission behind it, you can now do that through Buy Me a Coffee. It's not coffee.

It's just a friendly, informal way of talking about funding something. But it's a simple way to fuel the work. Completely optional but deeply appreciated.

Look for the Smart Edit Buy Me a Coffee link in the Show Notes page before we get the train rolling. I'd Just like to share something with you from a recent newsletter. We have a section called Thinking above and Beyond.

You know, God says in Isaiah 55, 9, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts. So we need to reason with him, think after him. Here's a quick hit thought. Dusted. In street language, to be dusted means defeated, wiped out.

Now, in Genesis 3, the serpent, and Satan, through the serpent, was sentenced to the dust. It was really a prophetic humiliation. God said, on your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life.

And Jesus later said that we would trample on all the power of the enemy. The enemy's realm is dust level.

Don't forget that our authority in Christ is above, that we can stay and live out of that place of being seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Ephesians 2. 6 and enforce the verdict that's been issued. Remember that because of Christ, his place is now under your feet, eating the dust.

All right, let's lean into this conversation. I believe it's going to speak to your mind, to your spirit in a powerful way.

Speaker A: 00:03:48

I'm excited today to have Keith Payne on the podcast. Some. Some of you know Keith, and some of you will be introduced to him today. And we're talking about a very.

I call it like a primal topic or a seminal topic, the topic of your father and also the fatherhood of God. We got a big problem in the world today on this issue. Keith, how are you today? I'm glad you carved out some time for us, Brian.

Speaker B: 00:04:13

Thanks for having me. This is. This is exciting for me. It's exciting for me because this is my first actual podcast.

Speaker A: 00:04:22

Your first podcast interview.

Speaker B: 00:04:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Back in the day, we did a lot of radio and a lot of TV stuff back in the day with our music ministry, but this is the first official podcast, so you are a record breaker, my man.

Speaker A: 00:04:35

All right, well, we're christening it right here. That's wonderful. This could be the beginning of your podcast career. Who knows?

Speaker B: 00:04:42

There you go.

Speaker A: 00:04:43

You may be podcasting yourself or you may be just guesting everywhere about your book and about other topics you have. I'm glad to have you here. Now, what can the listener today expect to hear as we talk today?

Speaker B: 00:04:56

Well, the. The book is. Is titled Stuff I Got from dad and Lessons from My Father. So the.

The whole concept of the book was birthed in the last year or two of my father's life. He.

He started to get ill, and I started spending much more time up there helping him just organize things and to take care of just, you know, family business as you have an elderly parent reminiscing.

And what came from those conversations was a realization on my part of the many, many lessons through the years that I had gleaned from him, and not necessarily Brian, where he sat me down and said, son, let me tell you about how to do X. But it was actually just experiences that upon reflection, it was like, wow, there was a real lesson there. So that's how I learned to do that.

Or on the flip side, boy, I should avoid that because I seen the destruction or the negative outcome of certain things. So there were lessons of what to do. There were lessons of not what to do.

And when I started reflecting on those, I said, man, oh, man, I'm going to just start writing down some of these stories because he just reminisce about from his childhood or many years ago. And then I started reflecting about, I've learned some lessons here.

And then it made me think of, you know what, my relationship with my heavenly Father. There are also lessons or. Or deeper meanings even beyond what I got from dad here, my earthly father.

Somebody said in a conversation, boy, your dad's life was so amazing. Somebody ought to write a book.

And as soon as I heard that statement, I felt that voice in my head through the years I recognize as the Holy Spirit just, you know, just giving me unction or movement to say, yeah, somebody should. It's you. So on that day, I said to myself, I'm going to write a book. And I had no experience. I didn't know where to start.

What's the proper methodology?

A lot of this stuff was just me writing my thoughts and trying to organize them in a way that would be, you know, accepted or easily read or understood by the reader. But the whole origin of this was the last couple years of his life. It reminded me of the things that I've learned.

And then it directed me towards even deeper lessons that I learned from my heavenly Father.

Speaker A: 00:07:54

Would you agree with the statement, Keith.

Speaker C: 00:07:56

That there is no father on this planet who's perfect? Right.

And yet God uses fatherhood to teach us about himself and to bring blessing in our lives and maybe, as you say, information or perhaps warnings even about.

Speaker A: 00:08:11

What not to do?

Speaker C: 00:08:12

Right.

Speaker B: 00:08:13

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. You say that fatherhood was important to Jesus. He referred to his father many, many times while he was on this earth.

So the example, the great example of what fatherhood should be influencing your children, providing direction. He lived that example, or he referred to that example. So fatherhood is important to me.

I've got three sons and the great thing about my relationship with my dad or my earthly father is when I was a kid, I thought he was Superman because he was big and you know, he was fit and he could, he could do things, you know, he could, he could throw a football very far and he could jump high. And when you're a four or five year old kid, you look at your dad that has certain abilities and you go, wow, is he fast or is he strong?

So I literally looked at him and thought he was like a superman as a young, young child. As you grow older, though, the thing that I learned is he wasn't Superman, but he was more like Clark Kent. He was human, okay? He was a man.

He had faults, he had frailties. And learning and accepting the humanity of who your dad is also helpful because it helps you with your own personal relationship with God.

Speaker C: 00:09:53

Yes, accepting the humanity, honoring all that is good. Right, that has come down.

Speaker A: 00:09:59

I mean, maybe I know there will be listeners who do not even have.

Speaker C: 00:10:04

A father present in their life or.

Speaker A: 00:10:07

It was a very extremely toxic or dysfunctional relationship, even abusive, just right there. Keith, what would you say to that sort of situation about fatherhood and also about the fatherhood of God?

Speaker B: 00:10:21

Well, I would say that everybody has different situations.

And if there's a scenario or of a listener that's father absent, there is no father that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will provide a relationship with a heavenly Father. That Father always shows up. That Father never breaks his promise. And that father is a comfort in time of need.

So I would say that no matter what the situation that we face here on earth, the hope is, and the good news is there is opportunity to create a very close and lasting relationship with our heavenly Father.

Speaker A: 00:11:03

Yes.

Speaker C: 00:11:04

Scripture says he's the father of the fatherless.

Speaker A: 00:11:08

So this book ties together your relationship.

Speaker C: 00:11:11

With your earthly father and with the.

Speaker A: 00:11:16

Heavenly father as you were doing the storytelling and doing. It's really a non fiction book, but there's story embedded in it, isn't there? The story of your relationship. How did that dual perspective shape the.

Speaker C: 00:11:31

Way you, you, you approached the writing.

Speaker A: 00:11:33

Of this, of this book?

Speaker C: 00:11:35

Your relationship with your earthly dad and your heavenly father.

Speaker B: 00:11:39

What, what it, what it did is it, it just put him a fine tip or a focus on the fact that I learned some great things from my earthly father.

My dad here on earth provided some things for us as far as strong will, you know, an example of never giving up, an example of trying to figure things out. You know, an Example of how to deal with people, which he had skills in. So there were things that I learned from my earthly father.

But when you sat down and started thinking about it, I would get a lesson, or I would reflect on a lesson I learned from my dad, and then I would think of the nature of God or my personal relationship with God, and I would say, oh, wow, there's even a deeper lesson there. In other words, it's good what I learned from dad, but there's even a better or a deeper way to do that or a way to approach a particular situation.

Let me give you a quick example, if I could, Brian. An example of that is dad, very young in life, showed us, hey, you need to dress a certain way, okay? He was a sharp dresser.

So as young guys, it's like, man, dad dresses pretty cool. He doesn't wear jeans, and he doesn't wear, you know, like, frumpy clothes. He knew how to tie a tie.

And so I tell a story in the book where I ran for class president in sixth grade, and he helped me get an outfit put together, okay? And so he was showing me the importance of looking right, dressing for success.

And then he was working with me on trying to read the room, see what people are saying and doing so that you can react properly to it. So those are good things to know. It's important to know that you should dress properly.

It's important to know that you should interact with people properly. But the reflection of my relationship with God was I started thinking about the story of.

Of young David and where, you know, the prophet Samuel comes in and he's, he's, you know, told by God, you have to go to this household, and you are going to anoint one of his sons. And the first son is tall and big. And Sami goes, God, this is the dude, man. This, you know, he's paraphrased. This has got to be the guy.

Look at this guy. And the lesson there, so clear from the scripture, was that God looks on the inside of a man's heart and not necessarily his outward appearance.

The deeper lesson for me, in other words, it's good to know how to read the room. It's good to know how to interact with people. It's good to know that you should dress a certain way.

But beyond that, more importantly than that, is if you have a heart for God and a heart for helping people, all those other things will take care of themselves.

Speaker A: 00:14:47

Now, your dad, he came from. In your book, you say he came from one of the poorest counties in the country, right?

Speaker B: 00:14:54

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:14:56

And he became a powerful union leader. Yes, it's really remarkable. I mean he. Did he have higher education at all or what was the level of his.

Speaker B: 00:15:07

From that part of the country? You would consider him highly educated because he did get through 11th grade. He did not have a high school diploma.

He came from McDowell County, West Virginia and McDowell County, West Virginia.

If any of your listeners would look up poorest counties in the usa, it would be listed in the top five in every search or every way that you want to measure this. Lowest income, lowest or highest unemployment, highest drug use. It's just a very, very tough area. And that's where his family was from.

And to this day it is a very, very tough area. But he left there quite Frankly. In the 50s. There was a.

Great, historically, if you look at it, there was a great migration from people from the south to the north looking for work in the early 50s. Auto plants, there were steel mills, rubber plants. Cleveland, Akron, Chicago, Detroit.

There's a huge migration of people from the deep south, but also from Appalachia and part of that group that came in their early 50s, from Appalachian up to Cleveland, Ohio, because he was a little smaller than Detroit and there were plenty of opportunities for what they would call non skilled labor at that time. Went to work at Ford and within a, after about a year got involved in the union movement there.

Because of his background in West Virginia that was very strong with the United Mine Workers. There was a lot of health and safety issues with the mines back in the day.

So it was, it was birthed in him or it was part of his DNA to stand up for the little guy and to make sure that the, the large organization or the company did not take advantage of the, of the worker. He went from a high school dropout to two terms where he was the president of the. It was the second largest UAW local union in the country.

There were 15,000 members when he was the president.

Speaker A: 00:17:29

Wow.

Speaker B: 00:17:30

So he had to get more votes than most mayors of a lot of these small towns in Ohio to get elected president of, of that local union back in the, in the 70s and 80s when he was involved in that.

Speaker A: 00:17:47

So do you think that was the primary fuel that drived him was his concern for the little man, as you say, or making sure that employees rights were preserved?

Speaker B: 00:17:56

Yeah.

His nature was that he loved a fight, he loved a good fight and he loved the opportunity to where if somebody was trying to take advantage of somebody that he was going to, you know, be the advocate or fight for that he was such a skilled negotiator that what you have to understand.

Here's a guy from, you know, not even a high school education, sitting across the table from trained HR people, attorneys, CEOs, executives, you know, from a Fortune 100 company, you know, this Ford Motor Company, very large company. And they put their most skilled negotiators on the other side of the table.

And here's this guy from West Virginia saying, okay, we're not going to do it that way. And he. He was. He became so famous or noticed for his ability to negotiate these contracts that they.

They finally figured out that there was a guy from the same part of the country that was an executive in the Ford world. They would bring him in. His name was Bill Landers. And they would bring Bill Landers in because my dad and Bill Landers could talk respectfully and.

But directly with each other because they came from the same part of the world.

Speaker A: 00:19:20

How about that?

Speaker B: 00:19:21

It was one of the ways that they negotiated contracts back in the day was they would call in this other guy from West Virginia to say, you got to deal with this guy from Cleveland because we were not making any headway with him. Yeah, that was his claim to fame.

Speaker A: 00:19:35

Okay. He was wired for this. He just had a lot of innate ability, didn't he? It was just in him.

Speaker B: 00:19:41

Yeah. His personality was. He would light up a room when he'd come into the room, and you would have to quickly assess. You couldn't ignore him.

You either had to position yourself as an ally or as an adversary pretty quickly because he just had that type of charisma. And anybody that met him or got to know him even later in life recognized that that was part of who he was.

Speaker C: 00:20:09

I'm sure those last few years of his life, when you spent a lot of time with him and probably gleaned a lot of the material, writing stories for this book was very fulfilling for you. Right. Very rewarding.

Speaker B: 00:20:20

Sure.

Speaker C: 00:20:21

And I'm sure it was really a time of grace. You know, end of life issues can be really sacramental seasons with people. Grace.

Speaker A: 00:20:32

But what was the most surprising thing or inspiring thing even, that you learned from your dad while you were going through this process and writing, when he.

Speaker B: 00:20:40

Was in his heyday of being the union leader, if you could. And the way I describe it is this. Just think of every negative stereotype of the union boss back in the 70s, and he was probably that. That person.

He interacted with people that. That we would call mob ties. He was beat up. There were contracts taken out on him. To shut him up.

He had his political opponents one time accuse him of kidnapping to try to destroy his career. So what I'm trying to describe this is a tough guy. And so when I was a very young child, my dad was not around a lot.

When he was around, he commanded respect. And within the community, he was considered a tough guy.

One of the things that was just so amazing about these last couple years of his life was being able to see. Hearing about these old stories and reminding myself about who he was, to see who he became after he accepted Jesus as his savior at age 65.

Speaker A: 00:22:04

Amazing.

Speaker B: 00:22:07

My mom prayed for him to be saved her entire life.

Speaker A: 00:22:10

How about that?

Speaker B: 00:22:11

And we were out in a music ministry. We're traveling the country, my brothers and I.

Mom is a praying woman, and her husband is this charismatic, tough union official with a lot of success. And in life, she was the patient one, and she's the one who was the forgiving one. But later in life, he gave his heart to God.

In the last nearly 20 years of his life, he lived it serving God, loving and supporting my mom and just, I think, fulfilling the legacy of what he should have and could have done years earlier. But that was the.

The most exciting thing about this project was being able to see how God can miraculously take anyone and change them and truly change them, change their nature to where that they become softer, they become more loving, they become more understanding, more forgiving. And God truly did that with my father.

Speaker A: 00:23:29

I love that you say that in your book. Stuff I got from dad in your subtitle is Lessons I Learned from My Father. Keith Payne, we're talking with. He's the author.

irst week of November. Right.: 2025

Speaker B: 00:23:45

Right.

Speaker A: 00:23:45

And from that point forward, and we're encouraging everybody to get a copy of this. You say it is a redemption story, right? Your dad?

Speaker B: 00:23:53

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

The way that I attacked the book, Brian, was I felt if I just jumped right into the lessons without giving the background and perspective of who we were or are as a family, that it wouldn't have been as impactful. So what I did was I started with Dad's story, and I started with his father.

And just to give a background of McDowell County, West Virginia, and, you know, who was my father's father and who he represented in that area and the part of the world that they came out of, and then just telling Dad's story about his childhood, coming to Cleveland and his career, just to give you a background of who this person was the second Section of the book, I basically tell my story and I try to just, you know, the stories of my childhood and my youth and all the way until current day is reflect on my relationship within my family and my relationship with my father. So that whole second section is telling the story from my point of view. And the third section, is that the actual lessons?

Speaker A: 00:25:15

Okay, yeah, we might get to that. Sure.

Speaker B: 00:25:18

Yeah. And I use stories to try to. To tell what the lesson is.

Speaker A: 00:25:23

Okay, yeah.

Speaker C: 00:25:24

Just real quickly you describe your, you know, your origin family as a non typical family. Right. Quote.

Speaker B: 00:25:29

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:25:30

What were some of the challenges and also some of the, you know, the giftings of that. Of that, you know, you know, coming up in your family.

Speaker B: 00:25:37

Do you say some of the challenges?

Speaker C: 00:25:38

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:25:39

Were there challenges as well as blessings and giftings that you.

Speaker B: 00:25:42

Oh, okay, great.

Speaker A: 00:25:43

With your brothers and your parents?

Speaker B: 00:25:45

Okay. Well, non typical family. My father did not have a 9 to 5 job. He was gone a lot.

From the time I was 12 years old, two of my brothers and myself were involved in a gospel music ministry to where we traveled at first locally, and then it branched out farther and farther and farther to the point that we were gone more than we were home. I missed a lot of school, my high school years, because we were on the road a lot. We traveled 38 states. We had the bus, we had employees.

It was a viable music ministry. My brother was a songwriter.

There's songs that he has written that I'm confident that you or people that would listen to this podcast have heard that he has written in his songwriting career. So a non typical family. We were gone. Dad was busy at work.

When we were home, we went to a local church, but it was not uncommon for us to have some people over and we're playing basketball in the driveway and then going into the family room and working on some songs.

And for me to fall asleep and then wake up at one o' clock in the morning and there's three or four other people there that weren't there when I fell asleep. So we were the household that people that were involved in our music world would come and go.

There wasn't a whole lot of strict rules because we weren't out running the streets and doing bad things. We were actually spreading the gospel through song.

And it was a high focus for us growing up, but there was not a whole lot of structure is the best way I could describe our household.

Speaker A: 00:27:39

So it's unusual in that sense. Non typical, yeah. But I can see the legacy and the blessing through that.

Well, you know, in part Three of your book, you mentioned these lessons that you learned from your earthly father.

Speaker B: 00:27:51

Sure.

Speaker A: 00:27:53

I think it's 10 lessons from your earthly father, five from your heavenly father. What are some of the several lessons that really stand out for you and that were transformative?

Speaker B: 00:28:02

Oh, that's great. That's a great question. When I think of some of the lessons, I tried to break down the lessons in the groupings.

Okay, so like, basics of life was, you know, don't listen to outside noise. You know, be careful the company you keep. Those are basic lessons.

And then a quick or early basic lesson I learned from my heavenly father is that he's very quick to forgive us, but we aren't. We hold forgiveness.

Speaker A: 00:28:36

Okay. He does, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:28:39

Another grouping was integrity. Tell the truth. Say what you mean, mean what you say. And I have stories to support, you know, those types of lessons.

But my heavenly father lesson was God never breaks his promise and he's faithful to us. Probably the most impactful part or impactful lesson was in a section where I'm talking about love and conflict.

I tell the story about how dad, my earthly father, one time at the local union hall, a political opponent pushed my brother, knocked him down. My dad owned a gun, and he was a tough guy.

And he grabbed the guy that knocked my brother down and grabbed his collar and pulled his head down to the desk and put the gun in his face and said, if you touch my kid again, it'll be the last day you live.

Speaker A: 00:29:50

Wow.

Speaker B: 00:29:51

Just literally threatened him. The lesson was, you know, fight for your kids. If somebody tries to attack your child, you fight for them. And there's a lesson there.

I don't condone using a gun. I don't condone how he did it. But his nature of I'm going to protect my kids was a lesson.

The deeper lesson was my father loved us so much, he would fight for us. My heavenly Father loved us even more to where that he would actually sacrifice his only son to allow us to be adopted into his family.

That is a much deeper level of love.

Of course, I think about Jesus, fully man and fully God coming to this earth and not having to go through that, but willingly did it from his perspective. But then think of the Father's perspective, allowing it to happen.

As you know, in the scripture where it says, you know, where Jesus is talking to his heavenly Father, my God, don't, you know, don't forsake me. That moment where God felt or Jesus felt alone.

So when I think about probably the most impactful is my dad loved us best way he could and displayed it the best way he could. And he demonstrated that by protection.

My heavenly father loved us the only way or the way that only he can, in my opinion, to where that he loved us to such a level. Not that he would just protect us, but he would, in order to adopt us into his family, sacrifice his only son.

Speaker A: 00:31:53

Would you say, Keith, that, you know.

Speaker C: 00:31:55

With our, with our fathers and even.

Speaker A: 00:31:58

Ourselves as fathers, that we quite often imperfectly reflect, you know, the true fatherhood of God? Oh yeah, like, like, like with your dad in this instance.

He's protective, but you know, maybe the way that he expressed that was, you know, not quite appropriate, but it still reflects the protective nature of God.

Speaker B: 00:32:26

You. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Another thought, Brian, or lesson that there was a section called make things happen.

Speaker A: 00:32:39

Make things happen.

Speaker B: 00:32:40

And there was a story that we had bus troubles back in the day and we blew, we blew our engine and we had just replaced it and you know, we didn't have the money to replace it. You know, we're stuck. And my dad actually came to us and said, don't get stuck, there's always a solution. And he helped through our uncle.

He arranged a temporary loan to get us actually to replace that old bus with a more modern bus. And it really kick started us to be able to go across the country. And he was the guy that planted those words in my head as a young man.

Don't get stuck. There's always a solution. And so I learned from dad to be independent.

I learned from dad to be, you know, make things happen, move, don't be dependent on other people. If it is to be, it's up to me.

All those good sayings and the western culture teaches us as men to be the person who's the, the provider, the man, the, the take charge guy.

Speaker A: 00:33:53

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:33:54

All good lessons, all good lessons.

Speaker A: 00:33:57

Absolutely.

Speaker B: 00:33:59

God. Proverbs 3 and 5, you know, trust the Lord with all thy heart. Lean not into your own understanding.

Speaker C: 00:34:06

Right.

Speaker B: 00:34:08

God taught me that he wants me to be more dependent on him. Look to him, trust in him. It's almost against what's natural as far as the way we're taught. So don't be independent, be dependent.

Don't figure it out yourself. Have him, pull him in to help you figure.

Speaker A: 00:34:34

Bring him into the mix.

Speaker B: 00:34:35

Yeah, bring him into the mix. And I tell the story of when we were trying to build houses in our old neighborhood and we couldn't get it through council.

And I worked on that thing for a year and literally am trying to get the people to the city council people to vote on it, just to get them to vote. And I'm thinking that we're supposed to have a vote.

I go to the meeting and they hit the gavel and they say, we don't have enough people here because this one council person was not notified.

Speaker A: 00:35:10

Okay.

Speaker B: 00:35:11

And laws that say if they're not notified, you can't have the meeting. And I kind of exploded and I said, what kind of Mickey Mouse operation is this? You guys can't even put a vote together.

They said, why are you so anxious? Do you think we're going to vote yes for your project? I said, I thought so. One council person. I was a no. I was a no. I was a no.

And supernaturally, I watched God create an environment to where that we, my brother and I were able to speak, not in a structured forum, but just talk to these guys because the meeting was canceled.

And we told them our heart, what we were trying to do, and literally won them over to what we were trying to accomplish so that we could build houses back in our original neighborhood. That evening, I'm walking around the block praying, and God spoke to me clearly and said, are you ready?

Are you finally ready for me to help you with this? And I went, oh, my goodness. Yes, Lord. And my brother Mark said, are we going to ever get this through? I said, mark, write it down.

It's going to happen. And I told him the story. Within two weeks, it was voted through and we built the houses and everything worked out good.

Speaker A: 00:36:36

Wow.

Speaker B: 00:36:37

But that was what I'm trying to say, Brian, is the deeper lesson is God wants us to depend on him.

Speaker A: 00:36:46

Depend on him?

Speaker B: 00:36:47

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:36:48

What I hear you saying is bring him into the mix, right?

Speaker B: 00:36:51

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:36:52

But it doesn't mean, as a man, that we're supposed to initiate, be aggressive.

Speaker C: 00:37:00

Right.

Speaker A: 00:37:01

Take risks and make it happen, as you say.

Speaker B: 00:37:03

Yeah.

Those are all good lessons that you should do it, but if you try to do it independent, independent from the Lord, from God, you are going to be swimming in some deep water, and a lot of times it doesn't work out.

Speaker A: 00:37:15

Sure, sure. Now, you know, conversely, what would you say about the approach where somebody would be praying about it and.

And kind of depending on the Lord, as you say, but would not actually do anything to make it happen.

Speaker B: 00:37:28

I would point them to the children of Israel and say that God put manna in the field every day, but you have to go out and go get it.

Speaker A: 00:37:37

Yeah, yeah, Whatever that application is.

Speaker B: 00:37:40

Open mouth. I'm going to put it inside your mouth. He said it's in the field. Go get it.

Speaker A: 00:37:45

Well, Keith, we have a lot of problems today in our culture with masculinity, as you know, with fatherlessness. And we could probably make a case that there's a clear connection there.

You know, the feminization of our culture, the over feminization of our society.

And we have young men coming up who really have not been initiated into masculinity, that they don't have either a biological father or any credible male figures in their lives that could help them with that. It's a real need, isn't it?

I mean, I are women, I'm hearing that women increasingly want men who are as one podcast, one podcaster says they are protectors, providers and presiders, you know, over, over their family. And there's a great need for this, isn't there? Masculinity, father?

Speaker B: 00:38:44

I think so because you can read statistics to where the father absent households, the children are more likely for failure than when you have both parents at home. So I think that, I think this what God built as marriage, husband and wife designed to raise children.

I think that that's a beautiful creation appointed by God. And I think that quite frankly, as a society we have demonized and tried to demasculate.

Speaker A: 00:39:30

Yeah for sure.

Speaker B: 00:39:32

The man in these relationships.

And what happens there is if you don't have that protection, that provision and also to provide guidance if you don't have that in place, what happens is the kids a lot of times find themselves in environments and doing things that it doesn't turn out well. I'm saying the, the beautiful combination of husband and wife, male and female, raising a family, that that is the optimum thing.

Speaker A: 00:40:10

Sure.

Speaker B: 00:40:10

And I will tell you this, that from my perspective, from my perspective in my household, you know, my father made mistakes. I have, I have half brothers and sisters that I did not even know until I'm a grown man.

And what, what God has, has done for, for me in, in, in this story is when I looked at that situation to where that they had less of a father than what I had because he wasn't there. He wasn't there like as much I thought he was gone a lot. To some of these other of my brothers and sisters, he was there even less or not at all.

Look, you know, your first thought of that is you just get angry at your dad. You say man, how could you do that?

And the beautiful thing about this is we are as a family navigating through and creating relationships and getting to know each other. And what God as he so often does in our situation. He's faithful on this. He takes something that's horrible, it's burnt up, it's nothing.

The outside, I would say there's nothing good is going to come from that. And he'll take ashes and he'll make beauty from ashes. In our family, there's restoration. There is relationships being formed and built.

And it just reminds us of the legacy of this family. And I'd just like to say this part if I could, Brian.

Speaker A: 00:42:05

Sure.

Speaker B: 00:42:06

As I got to learn who my new brothers and sisters were, what I discovered was they were involved in ministry, music.

Speaker A: 00:42:18

Isn't that amazing?

Speaker B: 00:42:19

Boards just the stuff that we were involved in. And they were different states, different parts of the country. And I thought to myself, God, you are so amazing. Here's the thing.

The legacy of my dad is not his union days. It's not the contrast he negotiated or the many people he helped.

The legacy is not necessarily all the mistakes he made and the pain and heartache that he caused my mom or even all the kids and the people involved. The legacy is not necessarily just the latter part of his life.

The legacy of my dad is that it's a pure and clear example that no matter how much we can mess something up, God can restore it. And God can miraculously save a person and change their life.

Speaker C: 00:43:21

Wow.

Speaker B: 00:43:22

The legacy lived on because my dad was a high school dropout that was not a Christian most of his life, but his children and his children's children and his children's children's children are on the ministry side. They're pastors, they're youth leaders, they're worship leaders. They're people involved in the technical side of supporting ministry.

They're songwriters. On the just the marketplace side, they have degrees. They're presidents, vice presidents, attorneys. They are professional people.

They have doctorates, they have master's degrees. And you just look at this family, the original family and the extended family.

And the legacy of my dad is that God provided favor for this family in spite of all the ways and things that we messed it up.

And he created this beautiful thing that not only has success in the marketplace, but quite frankly, also has had effectiveness in furthering the gospel in ministry.

Speaker A: 00:44:39

And, you know, you mentioned your mom and you mentioned women as well. You know that God uses men and women together, Obviously. It says in Genesis that God said, let us, as the Godhead, make man in our image.

He created them male and female, and he started a family which reflects the Godhead in community. So you're saying, though, that God, sovereignly in spite of the mess of things, he is sovereignly in the faith family doing something.

And the fruit of it multi generationally is there.

Speaker B: 00:45:19

It's amazing, 100% and not even. In other words, he knows the present, he knows the future.

My dad did not accept Jesus as his savior till late in life, but the wheels were put in motion. That ministry was going to happen from the time that we were kids.

Speaker A: 00:45:39

Yeah, God, God's at work.

Speaker B: 00:45:41

And, and literally the things that we accomplished and are still accomplishing as a family, I believe that God has provided favor for that to occur. I don't think that was out of our will. I don't think that that was just because, you know, we're gifted in a certain way.

I think God has looked upon us as faithful and said, you know what, I recognize that. And even though my dad wasn't serving him, he seen in the future that he would and he's seen in the future what could come from this.

And I believe that sovereignly he kept his hand on this situation.

Speaker A: 00:46:20

Absolutely. I want to ask you one question in conclusion. We'll come to in just a second.

What do you hope that readers and listeners will walk away with from your book? Stuff I got from dad.

But you know, Dallas Willard has a statement where he says that our lifetime now is a seed of what we always will be doing ever increasingly in the new heavens and new earth.

And so even though your dad during his earthly time, you know, 20 years at the end of his life where he knew the Lord and walked with him, yet it is a seed we could expect even continuing great things from him in the new heavens and new earth. I believe we're going to have creative assignments, Keith.

I don't think it's going to be an eternal church service and rest home experience in the sky. We're going to be involved in Christ's kingdom. But we're already seeing that effect now in your family. Multi generationally.

Speaker B: 00:47:24

Sure.

Speaker A: 00:47:24

ad the first week in November: 2025

It's going to be available.

Speaker B: 00:47:45

Well, the first thing that I would hope that they get from it is just an insight to our story and our family and how God took something that could have been a mess and quite frankly has created something that's beautiful that will live on. I also hope that there are people that will read the book and look at the lessons, the life lessons that I glean from It.

And be able to apply some of those to their lives, because there's some real common sense lessons that at first glance, you'll say, well, that's kind of a simple lesson. But then when you. When you really reflect on, you say, oh, my good goodness. I could. I can apply that here, I can apply that there.

A lot of the stuff that I learned growing up, I applied in my business world, and I had a business career. I retired just a few years ago after 39 years, and we. We were involved in music ministry, but I also had a business career that. That, quite frankly.

Sorry about that. I had a business career that I was. I was favored and blessed in that career, accomplished many things.

I'm a high school graduate that went to work for a company at 21 years old and ended up reporting directly to the president of the company. So, you know, I almost have, you know, a story that you go, well, how did that happen? Well, I say it happens only because of God ordained it to me.

The lifestyle that my family led and the schools I sent my kids to and what we were able to do, quite frankly, was more than my background, my education, or my skill set should have allowed us to do. But we were blessed. So my takeaway is that there are lessons that can be applied in people's lives.

There's a redemption story that's inspiring, and there's. Some people's got to read parts of this, and they're just going to laugh about what a crazy family.

Because when I tell stories of us growing up, some people will say, how did it. Did you. Did those boys survive?

Speaker A: 00:50:08

All right. How did they survive, let alone find success as an adult? Right.

Speaker B: 00:50:14

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:50:15

I'm just curious. Was your mom the first person in your family line that came to know the Lord?

Speaker B: 00:50:23

It was actually her mom. We called her Mama, and Mama was like the matriarch of the family.

And of course, mom in our immediate family was the first person to come to know the Lord. And soon the kids was going to church with her.

And dad would never go to church with us, but he was always respectful and he always loved our music, and he would promote our music to his friends and his people he got in contact with, but he would just never live the life or go himself. But mom was the praying. Mom made sure we were in church, made sure that we stayed doing the right things as we were growing up.

As I said, early on, we started traveling, and next thing you know, we're in multiple states, and she's at home praying that we don't get an accident while we're out on the road type of thing.

Speaker A: 00:51:15

I tell you, those praying women, in some sense, they rule the world when women start praying like that. I mean, the stuff that comes out of that prayer closet is unbelievable.

Speaker B: 00:51:29

For sure. For sure. I tell the story.

My mama, my grandma, when we would visit her before everybody would leave, she would always pull everybody together for a prayer and as she called it, traveling mercies. One time we all visited and for some reason we left and didn't have the prayer. Us grandkids, we made such a ruckus. Pull over, pull over, pull over.

This was pre cell phone days. And we stopped at some gas station or some store and got on the phone so mama could do her prayer before we went home.

That's how much it was part of the culture of us growing up.

Speaker C: 00:52:11

Wow. Wow.

Speaker A: 00:52:12

You felt security in that, right?

Speaker B: 00:52:14

Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: 00:52:14

I love that.

Speaker A: 00:52:16

Well, Keith, would you lead us in prayer right now? Just about some of these themes and what the Lord may want to bring through, through your book to people. Would you pray for us?

Speaker B: 00:52:29

Be happy to. Father God, we just thank you for an opportunity to talk about what you've birthed in us. And God, thank you for Brian and the work that he's doing.

Lord, I ask that everybody that has an opportunity to hear this, that your holy spirit would just pierce through their soul and just to where that it would comfort them or provide, Lord, just the spark for them to take action, to do what they need to do in their particular situation. God, I ask for comfort, but I also ask for wisdom.

God, you know that I. I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to, like book writing and that type of thing, but I'm. I'm faithful to you to. To take action when you. When you give me the unction.

And I ask God that everybody that has an opportunity to read this book, that it blesses them, that they see that there is hope. And there's hope, God, because you can redeem any situation.

God, I ask for the men that would listen to this or be exposed to this book, that they would be reinforced to do their role, to take their rightful place as the spiritual head of the household, of their family. Lead, to guide, to protect, to provide. God, these are things that you built, that you ordained in us as men.

God, I ask that you continue to bless Brian's ministry. God, I ask that you touch the book, that you bless everybody that comes in contact with it. And God, for your glory, not for mine.

I ask these things in the name of your son.

Speaker C: 00:54:04

Well, thank you, Keith.

Speaker A: 00:54:05

I, I've loved talking with you. I appreciate you.

Speaker B: 00:54:08

Well, thank you once again for the opportunity to do this and I appreciate your interest and I just, I hope that good things come from this. And I know that God is faithful and that there was a reason that this, that I put three and a half years of my waking moments into this.

I know that God has got a purpose and a reason for, for this book to be birthed.

Speaker A: 00:54:34

Hey, Keith, how can people easily access your book? And do you want to share anything like social media handles or ways to stay in touch with you?

Speaker B: 00:54:45

Yeah. The first week of November, the book is going to be available.

It will be available through Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and we are working right now on an audio book. It's not going to be released the first week of November, but soon after if you want to get in touch with me.

And I'm not a social media expert, but I do have a Facebook page.

Speaker A: 00:55:10

Okay.

Speaker B: 00:55:12

That I will be giving some information about that.

And I also have a Facebook page for a family foundation that we started a few years ago, Carmia's Window, which was basically my mom was a praying woman, as you know, and when she had a real serious prayer, she would go in front of her kitchen window and really, you know, petition the Lord about that need. So the symbol of mom praying at her window is just the visual of when there's something that really needs God's attention, we take it to the window.

And so we created a family foundation that allows me to give and to help people in need. We started it, we're in partnership with the Warren County Foundation. So it is a 501C3.

And there are three initiatives that Carbilla's Window is responsible for or charged with. It's. It's to spread the gospel. It's to keep families together and help those who are in need. So this last year was our first kickoff year.

There was a family that needed a van. The van was wheelchair bound.

Mr. And Mrs. Pitts, he was wheelchair bound for 10 years and they could only get a ride with a wheelchair accessible van once a week. And God laid on my heart to get them a van.

So we raised money and I donated some money and we got them a wheelchair accessible van for them to be able to go out to dinner, to visit their kids and go to church once a week. So it's a beautiful thing. God birthed my heart to help ministries, help people, help situations.

And so there is a website for that called Carmia's Window. If you jump on Google, it'll take you right there. And I also have a Facebook page for that.

So I'm looking to create a page for the book stuff I got from dad. And it's not out there yet, but it will be in the first week in November. You can hit me up on Facebook. You can hit me up.

Speaker A: 00:57:32

Keith Payne, right? P, A, Y, N, E. Yes, yes. And how do you spell, spell that, that, that name of that window. How do you spell that window?

Speaker B: 00:57:42

C, A, R, M, I, A, S. Carmia's window.

Speaker A: 00:57:46

Okay. And we will have a show notes page for this episode with these links. You know, people can, can click through and go right to these sources.

Speaker B: 00:57:57

Beautiful.

Speaker A: 00:57:57

Every podcast app that you're listening on will include these links too, right on the podcast app. You know, they can see that and see those URLs that they can go to in your Facebook. Yeah, okay. Appreciate you, Keith.

Speaker B: 00:58:09

Super thanks, bro.

Speaker C: 00:58:19

Thanks for joining us for episode 357 of the Jesus Smart X podcast. My prayer, my hope is that something in our conversation today awakened a fresh awareness of the Father heart of God.

I encourage you to get Keith's book. You can go to the show notes page@jesussmart.com 357 and maybe even begin to redeem some perspectives.

You can order the book, redeem some perspectives shaped by your earthly father experience. I will guarantee you something. Your father in heaven, you may not feel this way necessarily, but he is pursuing you. He is bringing you to a place.

He is shaping you and calling you into daughterhood, into sonship, into. That can transform. It will transform everything. If this episode added value to you and meant something to you, would you share it with a friend?

You just never know. Who needs this word today for a weekly boost of hopefully kingdom, insight and wisdom, I believe it is.

Sign up for the Smart Edit newsletter@jesuss smart.com it's short, five minute read, impactful weekly, free, usually on Thursdays. Designed to elevate your walk in Christ.

If you'd like to support what we're doing on the podcast and the mission behind it, you can do that through Buy me a coffee. It's not a coffee. I'm not drinking coffee. I mean, I do drink coffee, but I'm not drinking coffee from these funds.

It's just a simple, informal way, a fun way to feel the work. Completely optional. The podcast is free, but appreciate it. If you'd like to do that, just look for the link in the show notes. Okay.

I appreciate you being part of this podcast this initiative toward Jesus centered Kingdom driven living.

Speaker A: 00:59:49

How's that sound?

Speaker C: 00:59:50

You're on the right path, orientated towards the right horizon. Future is moving, moving in Jesus direction. Until next time, live smart, live strong, and stay anchored in the Father's love.

Speaker A: 01:00:20

Angel, step back, here I come.

Speaker B: 01:00:25

Angel, step back, here I come.